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The battle of all-time franchises!
Cold, Hard Football Facts for June 24, 2008
Die-hard Dallas fan David Hickey lobbied hard for his Cowboys to be listed at No. 1 in our all-time franchise rankings. In fact, he even drew up an entire review of the Cowboys, like those that appeared in our rankings. Now that's dedication!
It's also the a-social, inbred, basement-dwelling behavior we've come to expect from our readers ... but dedication just the same.
But Hickey took it well (unlike many Cowboys fans, who have a history of attacking the Cold, Hard Football Facts at even the slightest perceived insult ... of course, their arrows of misinformation bounce harmlessly off the pigskin parapets of our castle of Cold, Hard Football Facts).
He came back with a creative response to our rankings after they were finalized: he compiled the all-time teams of the the top two franchises on our list, Green Bay and Dallas, and wondered, who would win?
Talk about star-studded teams! Let's put it this way: it would be a game in which Brett Favre was merely the third best quarterback in uniform and would stand on the sidelines with a clipboard.
Here's Hickey's letter, with his all-time Packers and Cowboys teams. To juice it up a bit, we stack up the two teams side-by-side and try to see who would have an advantage in a fantasy game between the all-time Packers and all-time Cowboys.
From Hickey:
"Good job on the all-time rankings. I knew Dallas would be No. 2, and I guess I can't really complain about that too much. Green Bay's history and small-town background is just too much to overcome. I just think that you should have noted how bad Green Bay was from 1948-58 – a record of 37-93-2 (.288) and 1968-1991 – a record of 142-201-8 (.416 and one playoff victory, but against the Cardinals!). A decade here and a quarter century there, and we are talking about 35 years of the Packers playing like the Cardinals. The Cowboys never had such long dry spells as those.
"Another thing I like to do is pit one team's All-Time Team against another. For example, would Dallas's All-Time Team beat Green Bay's? Anyhoo, this is what I do all day. Yes I have a family and a full-time job, but you have to get your priorities straight."
With Hickey's priorities clearly in order, here are his teams below. You can argue with Hickey's selections at certain positions (we would, too). But overall, a pretty solid list of the best players at each position for these two teams. For the purpose of this exercise, we went with his lists.
Then we chose who might have an advantage at each position. Obviously, offensive players don't play against the other team's offensive players. So these advantages (like the entire exercise) are merely of a fantasy kind (and you know how we feel about imaginary fake football).
Plus, from a practical point of view, we couldn't just stack up one team's offense vs. the other team's defense. Obviously, you could pretty easily line up a left offensive tackle vs. a right defensive end. But what do you do with the quarterback, stack him up against the free safety? And which running back would take on which linebacker or safety?
So, again, for fantasy purposes here at the depths of the off-season gridiron doldrums, we put offense head to head with offense and defense head to head with defense to see who might win a battle between the all-time Packers and all-time Cowboys.
These are some amazing teams:
THE ALL-TIME COWBOYS and PACKERS OFFENSES
|
Position |
Cowboys |
Packers |
Advantage |
|
QB |
|
|
Packers |
|
RB |
Emmitt Smith |
Ahman Green |
Cowboys |
|
RB |
Don Perkins |
Jim Taylor |
Packers |
|
WR |
Michael Irvin |
James Lofton |
Cowboys |
|
WR |
Drew Pearson |
|
Packers |
|
TE |
Jason Witten |
Paul Coffman |
Packers |
|
T |
Rayfield Wright |
Forrest Gregg |
even |
|
G |
Herb Scott |
Gale Gillingham |
Packers |
|
C |
Mark Stepnoski |
Jim Ringo |
Packers |
|
G |
Larry Allen |
Mike Michalske |
Cowboys |
|
T |
Ralph Neely |
|
Packers |
Our notes on why the selected players have the advantage:
- Starr is No. 1 on our definitive list of all-time QBs, so he takes this match-up over anybody.
- Smith is the all-time rushing leader.
- Taylor's in the HOF, Perkins is not.
- Lofton played longer and put up bigger overall numbers, but Irvin was more consistently productive and a more important part of champion offenses.
- Hutson is a member of the All-Time 11 and wins the receiver battle over anybody.
- Witten hasn't played long enough to beat out the highly productive Coffman.
- Gregg or Wright? You pick an advantage there among the HOF tackles.
- Gillingham was a five-time Pro Bowler, to three for Scott, and has more rings.
- Ringo is arguably the best center in history.
- Allen is a legendary earth-mover and 11-time Pro Bowler.
- Hubbard might be the best tackle ever and a member of the All-Time 11.
THE ALL-TIME COWBOYS and PACKERS DEFENSES
|
Position |
Cowboys |
Packers |
Advantage |
|
DE |
Harvey Martin |
Willie Davis |
Packers |
|
DT |
Bob Lilly |
Henry Jordan |
Cowboys |
|
DT |
Randy White |
Gilbert Brown |
Cowboys |
|
DE |
Charles Haley |
Reggie White |
Packers |
|
OLB |
Chuck Howley |
John Anderson |
Cowboys |
|
MLB |
Lee Roy Jordan |
Ray Nitschke |
Packers |
|
OLB |
DeMarcus Ware |
Tim Harris |
Cowboys |
|
CB |
Mel Renfro |
Herb Adderley |
even |
|
SS |
Cliff Harris |
Willie Wood |
Packers |
|
FS |
Darren Woodson |
Lee Roy Butler |
even |
|
CB |
Deion Sanders |
Mark Lee |
Cowboys |
Our notes on why the selected players have the advantage:
- Davis is in the HOF and may have been the best defender on the 1960s Packers dynasty.
- Both Lilly and Jordan are in the HOF, but contemporaries seem to believe Lilly might have been the best ever at the position.
- Randy White is in a different class of player than Brown.
- Reggie White might be the best DE ever and could play DT.
- Howley is a member of the CHFF Hall of Awesome.
- Nitschke and Jordan are both legends of the position, but Nitschke is in the HOF (though perhaps Jordan should be).
- Ware is young, but Harris is probably not the best selection for Green Bay at OLB and only spent a couple years with the Pack.
- You pick an advantage between HOFers Renfro and Adderley.
- Wood is a HOFer.
- Woodson and Butler would probably be the weak links in these respective all-time defenses.
- Sanders is a member of the All-Time 11.
So the Packers seem to have the advantage on offense, while the Cowboys seem to be more solid on defense. But what's it all mean in the end?
Nothing.
But boy, it sure is fun to think abouut what kind of game this would be: the best of the best franchises in NFL history battling it out for all-time supremacy. We'd even stay sober for that game.
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